Motor Homes, RV's - Expert Advice

Motor Homes and RVs
Advice, experiences, and suggestions.

The RV Shopper, aka TCasey interviews Larry Griner on the subject of motor homes and RV's, Recreational Vehicles.

To contact him, please click on motor homes and RVs to use his contact form, or call Larry on his cell phone (716) 818-2116. Thank you.

Larry Griner OK, let's say that you are a married couple, retiring from your careers, and you want a recreational vehicle. One that you can use to take to Florida and live in for a few months every year, and then return back here, to the Buffalo - Western New York area.

RV Shopper Right, Larry, we will also want to take occaisional short trips to places like the Finger Lakes, Toronto and to Rich Stadium for Buffalo Bills home games. What kinds of motor homes and RVs would you recommend we look at?

Gas vs. Diesel fueled motor homes and RVs

Larry Griner OK. Based on your use and what you intend to do, I would probably direct you toward a gasoline fueled motor home. If you're going to do less than about ten thousand miles a year.

I wouldn't recommend going with a diesel motor home. The diesels are more expensive and kind of hard to justify unless you are going to be driving fifteen, twenty, twenty-five thousand miles a year.

RV Shopper So you are saying that you don't save very much using diesel fuel compared to gasoline? What about the lower cost per gallon and the higher mileage that you get with diesel?

Larry Griner You'll save a little bit on the mileage part. But then again, it depends on what state you are in when you fill up.

Whether gas or diesel is cheaper. It flip-flops from state to state.

The money that you save on diesel fuel and you gain a couple miles per gallon, which is in the 1, 2 or 3 miles per gallon range, is not a big number. It takes up a lot of time and miles to make that extra expense. That's because your average diesel motor home is going to cost you anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000 more than a gas motor home. It's going to take you a lot of time to make up $30,000 at the pump. Years to make that up.

RV Shopper What about the comfort level of the gas versus the diesel motor homes and RVs?

Larry Griner The living comfort level is very close, very similar. I mean there are some bells and whistles on a diesel that you may not see on a gas. I mean depending on your level of coach.

Because you can go from what we call an entry level, which would be less expensive, but has the necessities, basically - to a moderate line or higher line that has things like Corian countertops, you know, a nicer fit and finish... hardwood cabinets, that kind of stuff.

Just depending on what you like and what you're going to be happy with. And that's all going to be all in your personal taste.

When I say gas motor home versus diesel motor home, as far as ride-ability or the comfort level of the ride, the diesel will ride better. It will give you a nicer ride because it's on an air suspension, It's on a totally different chassis.

Then again if you have a gas motor home, it's not like it's going to beat you up like driving a dump truck. They have a long wheel base.

It's kind of like the difference between the ride in a Continental and the ride in a Rolls Royce. I mean they're both very good rides, but you are going to be able to tell the difference.

The RV Lifestyle

RV Shopper So we're really buying motor homes and RVs for living in, right?

Larry Griner The living and the convenience. You know, you have to look at it like you're investing in a lifesyle. You're buying a house, but it's more of a lifestyle because you're going into campgrounds.

I have worked in Florida, worked with campers and campgrounds, sold to campers and campgrounds. You are going to meet some of the nicest people in the world.

You're going to meet people that are your same age doing some of the same things you are doing, looking for the good meals, the good friends, the good times, the relaxation.

And you'll meet those people in those campgrounds. And they're great people. They'll tell you where to go to get the best deal, where not to go...

They'll be able to tell you where to go to get your motor home fixed if you have a problem... They'll also tell you where not to take it.

One thing about campers is, they're very honest. In the recreational vehicle business, or in the campground business, we can make a lot of friends or we can make a lot of enemies, if we don't take good care of those campers when they come to us.

Everybody that I have ever sold to, that I know of, that has ever come and said that they didn't know if they were going to like this - When they did it, they loved it.

They either first off bought a used or entry level coach, based on 'Well, we may not like it'. Then in a year or less they've come back and said 'OK, now we're ready to upgrade. We're having a ball. Well we saw this and we saw that. Now we want to upgrade this... I know initially we didn't want to spend the money, but we know we love this. So we're going to spend the money now.

So I've had them do that.

This past year, I think probably 30 to 40 percent of my sales were to people I've sold to before or talked to before, and bought another camper. I've had that happen numerous times.

I sold a couple a small 5th wheel, weren't sure they were going to like it. Even though they did go new, they went with a smaller new.

Within 4 months they came back and they said 'OK now we're ready. We want the big one.' And they had used it only once or twice.

Now of course that can get rather expensive, when you go trading like that, that quick of a turnaround. But they came back to me because you know being honest with them, telling them exactly pretty much what I thought they were going to do, and what I pretty much knew they were going to do. I knew they were going to fall in love with it, you know.

But for a gas motor home, it's going to do everything you need it to do. Everything a diesel will do. The diesel will ride a little better.

But if you're not in a hurry, you are supposed to be retired, the gas will go over that same mountain. It may not go over the mountain at 65 miles an hour. It may go over it at 50.

It's not like the old motor homes, the old days where you get behind a motor home and tell the guy, you know under your breath telling him 'Get out of our way'.

They'll cruise down the highway now at 65, 70, 75 miles per hour. Although at 75 you do not get optimum gas performance or fuel economy.

They'll still do that, they'll do that all day long, it's not an issue. But when you go over a mountain, it's just like in your car. You can feel it. I mean there's going to be a difference.

Driving motor homes and RVs

RV Shopper How hard is it driving motor homes and RVs?

Larry Griner If you can drive a car, you can drive a motor home. A lot of people think that the motor home is, and it is bigger than a car, no doubt. But it is still designed to be within the lines on the road.

As long as you keep your driver's side mirror on line, just like you would your car, your other side is fine. It's not sticking over anymore. I mean there is a little less play, as far as how much room you have, let's say between the side of the home and the curb. It is a little wider.

But if you keep your driver's side in line, just like you would your car, the other side is going to follow.

A lot of people say 'That's 33 feet, I didn't want to go over 30 feet'. Well think about it. The difference is 3 feet, that's the difference. Or 2 feet or whatever the situation.

I've had people say 'Well we only wanted to go 34 feet'. And the one that they love is 35 feet. Well our difference is 12 inches and it is all behind you. You know?

Then they'll say 'Why can't I get this and this in a 30 footer, like is in this 33?' And my explanation is generally, if you take off 3 feet you have got to take it from somewhere.

You know, if you wanted two couches you have got to get the extra feet.

Floor plans - Slides in motor homes and RVs

Floor plans vary in gas motor homes. Generally if you are looking for something with slides, you're looking somewhere between 26 or 27 up to 38 or 39 feet.

You can go from no slide, one slide, two slide, three slide... I haven't seen a four slide gas yet, but it doesn't mean it's not on the horizon.

RV Shopper What about slides? How much extra room can a slide add? What do I need to consider when it comes to slides in motor homes and RVs?

Larry Griner Depending on the size of the slide... If you've got what we call a Super Slide, it's in the living room. You have the couch and the dinette and the slide is generally about 3 to 3½ feet - and figure that's generally about 12 foot, so 3 by 12 is 36 extra square feet of living space.

And you can really tell the difference when you stop and you open it up.

One of the key things I tell people when they're looking at motor homes is slides: Always look at it with the slides open and slides closed. Because when the slides are closed, you do give up some things. Especially with multiple slides.

Generally, in the living space you don't give up anything. I mean just other than the aisle space.

In the bedroom, you may give up the drawers because the bed is going to come up and go against either the closet or the drawers or the vanity or whatever is on the opposing wall. And you've got to be able to live with it.

In 90% of them you can get into the bed. Like if you were stopping at a rest stop for the night, you want to stop to sleep and you can't put out the slides. You can get to the bed. You can't get around it, but you can get into it.

You have to pack your night clothes accordingly. Instead of putting them in the drawers at the end of the bed, you might put them in the night stand drawer or in one of the drawers in the bathroom. Or anyway in a location so when your're on the road you can get to them.

When you're stopped though, of course, slides give you more room.

Now it's kind of an oxymoron, anybody that buys a camper or buys a motor home, the main reason they're buying that is to get out of the house.

So your're hoping you're going to spend whatever amount of money, shether you buy a $3000 pop-up or a $100 thousand motor home, your whole plan is to be outside underneath the awning. That's what you're buying it for, to be outside and travelling.

But in western New York, as you well know, the weather it can change quickly. So you want to be able, when you get bad weather, cold fronts or rain or whatever. You want to be sure that when you are inside you have room to maneuver. You know we all need our space a little bit.

So that's what the slides are going to give you. They're giving you more space.

Retired people, going places and spending two or three months living in this together, even though most retired people may have been living together for years and years. They realize that they want their space. So you know it helps to do that.

Pricing

RV Shopper In our situation, what kind of price range would we be in for motor homes and RVs?

Larry Griner For somebody who is retiring, who is not going to be doing the miles, you are looking somewhere... and this is a total guess becasue it's all going to be based on your own personal preferences as far as the motor home is concerned. But my direction for you would be, I would probably choose smowhere between the $80 and $100 thousand range.

It may go a little higher, just depending.

RV Shopper How do you recommend that we go about looking and deciding?

Larry Griner The way I work with people in your situation is this. I'm not going to start you off in the $100 thousand home. Because once I do that, I take you and your wife into one that's $100 thousand and one of you falls in love with it. But you may say 'Well, you know it's at the top of our budget'.

So when you look at something less expensive, at's not going to have the same glamour and your're not going to like it.

Now if I start off say in a lower end and we walk in and you say 'Oh this is ugly' or 'I don't like this' and we move on from there. And when I get to a point, it might be mid range around $90 thousand that you fall in love with.

Then you say ' Well this is pretty much going to fit what we need'. Why should I keep going. If I keep going, all I am going to do is confuse you. You might see something that you like better, but now you'te at the upper end of your budget.

My job, for me, is not to spend every dime that you have to spend. That's not my job. My job is to put you in a motor home that you're going to fall in love with and buy.

It does me no good to show you something that you can't afford. Because if I do that, you don't like anything else, I've lost a sale, you haven't got a motor home.

Now you go home saying 'Well in a couple years if we can save our pennies'. Then in a couple years that same motor home is going to be, you know $5, $10, $15 thousand more. Who knows what the prices are going to do? But you could end up spending more.

Financing motor homes and RVs

RV Shopper So in that price range, $80 to $100 thousand, how much cash do I need?

Larry Griner Generally there is not a set amount as far as cash down. Meyer's RV Superstores and lenders don't say that you have to have this much down. The key generally is based on credit, credit score and all that stuff.

We generally try to get taxes and fees down.

So, you, as long as you pay your taxes and fees down, and you've got good credit, you're pretty good.

It all depends on you.

I've had people come in to buy an $80 thousand motor home and say they're going to take $50 thousand out of their account to put down... and I'm like 'Well do you need to do that?' And your reply is 'Well, what do you mean do I need?'

Well you put $50 thousand down and you're down to a $350 per month payment. Is that what you want to base it on?

And you tell me 'Well I can afford a bigger payment of course'.

And so why don't you keep your $50 thousand, keep that in the bank. That's earning earning money for you. Let it work.

Take $10 thousand and put it down here. Pay your fees and stuff. Yes you payment's going to go up a little bit on this side. But on this side, your money is earning interest. That's going to be growing.

And this is a motor home. It's just like a car. It doesn't appreciate, it depreciates.

So if you put that $50 thousand into that $100 thousand motor home, next year you don't have a $100 thousand motor home. Depending on the market of course, you have an $80 thousand motor home.

Now if you do it the other way, you have still got the $80 thousand motor home. But you still have $40 thousand in the bank, plus what interest you've earned.

Yes, you've paid more interest on that loan, but that interest is deductible.

RV Shopper What part of the payment is deductible?

Larry Griner The interest on the motor home is tax deductible as a second mortgage, as long as you're not already writing off two houses. And most people aren't.

It's the same as a second home as far as your federal income tax is concerned, for interest on the loan. This kind of stuff. So, it just helps you.

And if, God forbid, you go on a trip and something happens, you've still got liquid cash that you can get you hands on.

If you put all you cash in to that motor home and you have an emergency and need some large amount of cash and you don't have it. Now you have to sell the motor home.

Well you may or may not be able to sell it for even close to what you paid for it, depending on depreciation and the rest of that stuff.

If you put $50 thousand down on a $100 thousand home, and a year from now could you get that $50 thousand? Absolutely. As long as, you know, it hasn't been in an accident or something.

But you're not going to get $100 thousand. You might get $70 thousand or you might get $80 thousand, you might get whatever. You can ask whatever, depending on what the market can bear.

So I generally try to talk people into not paying cash.

I had the customers... There are people who have not ever bought anything on credit in their life, except their home. They paid that off and they swore they'd never borrow another dime. You know, they pay cash. That's just the way they do it. Sometimes that's the way you're raised. And if you can do it that way, that's great.

There are a lot of options there, as far as the motor homes. There are different ones, gas motor homes I can put you in, and stay in your budget.

Customer service for motor homes and RVS

You'll probably call me from Florida or wherever and tell me what a great time you're having.
You might even call me and say 'Larry, my hot water heater isn't working.'

I just sold a customer back in November. I've been working with him for almost two years. First motor home, just retired, they bought it from me, they went to Florida.

They bought it in November and actually went to Florida in February because I went to Florida in February. And they called me. True story.

They were in South Carolina on their way to Florida, their hot water heater didn't work. Now it's a brand new motor home and I told them where to go in Florida. They went to where I told them to go, but the dealership there was kind of rude to them. They told them that since they didn't buy it there, they weren't exactly on their priority list.

So they called me back and told me what had happened, which I was thoroughly disappointed with the dealership.

Even though I had sold these customers. They were paid for. We're done. I had no reason other than my own sense of duty or whatever you want to call it, to take care of them.

So, I just called my brother-in-law in Florida at another dealership and just said 'Hey, I have these people, no they're not your customers, they're very nice people, they're on vacation... first trip. Could you help them? Everything is covered by warranty.'

He said 'Sure, send them down.'

So I called them back. Sent them down to my brother-in-law. They called me back the next day, said 'Larry, you hooked us up good. We're on our way to the Keys. Thank you so much.'

RV Shopper You took good care of them.

Larry Griner You've got to. You're not coming back next year to buy another motor home. When you spend $100 thousand, you're not coming back the next year or the year after, or the year after, generally, to spend another $100 thousand. Especially when you're retired.

You know, most of us, retirement income, you may set it up so you can afford to buy a motor home. But you don't set it up so that you can buy one every two years. Not that I know of.

But when people, you meet these people in these campgrounds. Because I'm sure these people are going to meet all kinds of people in campgrounds. Not only that, for instance, saying 'Oh now that's a nice motor home. Where did you get it?'

'Well I got it here. You've got to see Larry. Here's one of his cards.'

Insurance for motor homes and RVs

RV Shopper What about insurance for motor homes and other recreational vehicles?

Larry Griner From what I've heard, the insurance industry looks at it like, people who buy motor homes are generally more mature, responsible and have good credit. I know it's a generalization.

Also, most of the driving of motor homes is on major highways versus down in cities where most accidents occur. So these keep insurance costs down.

Most of the claims that I've seen at our shop have been small. You know, backing up into a parking pole. I've not seen, in four years, any big accidents, you know, involving two vehicles.

Operations

RV Shopper What about the systems in the motor homes? How hard is it to get the hang of how a motor home works?

Larry Griner Motor homes, campers, even our pop-ups, when you buy from us, and I've worked for other dealerships, when you buy from any dealership, you get what we call a walk through.

And what that is, they actually assign a tech to you the day you come to pick up your motor home. The tech or mechanic walks you through, inside and out, front to back. Shows you how all the systems work, how to work everything.

And what I always recommend to my customers, if you have a video camera bring it. And also take as much time as you need with the mechanic.

Of course my customers get my cell phone number.

I was recently called by a customer. His first motor home. He forgot how to empty the waste tub and he had trouble lighting the stove. I walked him through it while we were on the pone. You forget this stuff.

My customer who went to Florida, when he picked his up to take and load, couldn't remember how to turn on the heat.

Well he called me and I made sure that he had all the basics covered. But with the differences between motor homes, I told him 'Ron, I can't recall off-hand how to work it. Let me go into the shop, I've got the exact same one on the lot, and I'll see if I can't walk you through.'

He goes 'Well it's your day off'.

I told him I had to go in anyway.

A half hour later I called him back and we got his heat going. It was just a thing of knowing which button to push. He forgot.

RV Shopper So a video would have been helpful to him.

Larry Griner Yes, especially for a first time motor home buyer. If it's your second or third, whether you had a pop-up or a camper, a lot of the basic stuff is the same. I mean a sewer hook-up or a water hose, there's no big difference. Thermostats and levelers are different and a few other components of a trailer versus a motor home.

That's about it for this interview about motor homes and RVs. I hope that you find it as interesting and informative as I do.

I think that Larry has been very generous and helpful.

To reach him, Larry Griner provides you with his cell phone number, 716 818-2116, just like he does for all his customers.

Call ahead or stop by at the Meyer's RV Superstores' Hamburg location: 5533 Camp Rd. Hamburg, NY 14075